Isn't it possible for a citizen on Plato's ideal state to have two virtues? A good example a citizen having both the qualities of a Guardian and an Auxiliary, or a citizen born from the class of the Workers and have the qualifications of both a Worker and an Auxiliary. Would it mean destruction of Plato's ideal state?
We knew how Plato plan to exclude the wise and the pursuant of wisdom from the polis to create the guardians but how could he or the philosopher-king distinguish an auxiliary to a worker without the probability of locking a citizen and his/her would-be offspring to a certain class, say a son of a worker will be always a worker?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
For the sake of argumentation, I don't think there is a place in Plato's ideal state for a mixed class.
ReplyDeleteHere is why: Plato was concerned with perfection. Although a "mixed" class might sound like a good idea (for the sake of specializing in two fields), what I think he had in mind is pursuing perfection in one field alone. Of course, the pursuance of training to be an Auxiliary is the opportunity cost of the pursuance of training to be a Guardian.
Even if you try to balance both, the probable outcome would be having a satisfactory skill level for both fields. The concept of looking for the perfect state would demand you to give your best contribution. This attainment of perfection would only be possible if you focus on one specific field and not split your efforts in trying to become a "mixed class".
So yes, it means that it is not the ideal state anymore. The probable outcome is a "second-best" state, where everything is balanced, but not really excellent.
Or maybe he didn't think of the possibility that a mixed class actually exists. Given that he based the classification of the polis into his own view of the human soul which, according to him, is divided into three parts and have their own separate concern and identity.
ReplyDeleteSay a given part of the human soul cannot do the task of any of the other two parts then a certain class of the society, say, the guardian can never do the task of the auxiliary or a worker.
I like the way you incorporate opportunity cost in here but opportunity cost for me is more like an individual's choice and Plato's system is more of a dictation. When I say opportunity cost, it means that I'm choosing this knowing that I can't have this but Plato's republic is more like, hey you belong here so don't concern yourself with anything else.
Or maybe he really is just an idealist or a perfectionist just as you said so he doesn't give a damn about reality.
Cheers.
I think there was a possibility of having a mixed class. However, the person may be capable of being both an Auxiliary and a Guardian but has better or stronger qualities of one. So the person should choose to be in the class wherein his qualities are stronger.
ReplyDeleteThe possibility of a mixed class is of course possible. However, the question would be if having a mixed class would be the ideal state. It reminds me of this degree that the U.S. can give. It is called the MD/PhD. It is a seven year program that allows you to obtain both degrees. However, when compared to people who get a straight MD or PhD, those with an MD/PhD would be just an average doctor or researcher. Which would you hire for a spot in the hospital? Someone who got all High Honors in their clinical rotations or someone who just passed but knows how to do a bit more research than the straight MD.
ReplyDeleteObviously there are exceptions and it doesn't always turn out the way I described it, but from profiles I have read about various MD/PhD students, that is one of the downfalls of the program.
So for Plato's ideal state, he wanted perfection. Exactly what a person thinks of when they hear the word "ideal." He would have wanted people who are the best of the best in that field. If people were to do both roles then they would be unable to become the best in the field and would kill Plato's idea for an ideal state.
This topic seems like the question that asked something along the lines of, "Would you rather know a lot about one thing, or know a little about a lot of things."
Woo.
Less specialization or More specialization?
ReplyDeleteLooks like a classic economic question. Haha.
But back to the topic.
But would be the choice of classes, given that a mixed class exists, be a choice?
Say, I belong to a mixed class, would I have the right to choose which class would I specialize in or would the Philosopher King decide where I would belong?
Cheers.
Wouldn't it make sense that you'd choose a path in which you excel more? Or even if it is not your decision to choose, the authoritative figure would place you in a place where you excel, anyway. Either way whatever the process of choosing may be, the individual will be at the same end.
ReplyDeleteI think there cannot be a mixed class. In the case of the occurrence of a person with great capabilities as a ruler, guardian or producer, I think that the ruler, given his wisdom, should be fit to choose the field of the individual or even more tests/challenges on the person can be done to see what class he really belongs to.
ReplyDeleteGreat arguments, by the way.
To the question: is the choice of classes a right? Nice point. Could one choose to be a Guardian? That is, is being a Guardian, an Auxiliary, or whatever something you can choose and eventually achieve through experience and training? Or is being in a certain class a hereditary grace/burden? In Plato's ideal state, can one choose the path where he thinks he would excel more, or is he locked in the class where the philosopher-king thinks he should be in forever? Of course, answers to these are under the premise that such a perfectly wise ruler does exist. But does he? Is there really a perfectly wise man who wouldn't subject himself to the dictates of his selfish appetites?
ReplyDeleteWell according to Plato's ideal, such a man exists. But in reality, we would be damned if there is an existence of such and not let him be our leader. Let's try to find him now eh?
ReplyDelete